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Why Modern Comedians are the ultimate growth marketers:
In this article, I’m going to break down how modern comedians are the ultimate growth marketers using many famous growth models along the way.
Growth Classics
June 29, 2024
Why Modern Comedians Are The Ultimate Growth Marketers:
In this article, I’m going to break down how modern comedians are the ultimate growth marketers using many famous growth models along the way.
TL;DR:
Circular growth loops: Building closed systems that allow the inputs to generate outputs that can be reinvested in the input e.g. Social media
Channel diversification: Launching new channels e.g. podcasts that allow them to shorten the feedback loop between the end consumer and themselves.
Content marketing: Stand-up comics are building their own content and podcast studios so they can scale production faster than their peers.
Monetisation: Through gated content, they can monetise their community e.g. Patreon allowing for reinvestment into their growth engine.
Experimentation: Comedians leverage their live comedy appearances to engage in crowd work and perform new material enabling them to experiment and iterate at speed to constantly improve their material and find new angles/concepts to fuel their growth.
Partnerships: They engage in collaborations and partnerships with other entertainers around the world enabling them to audience share and find new consumers and increase their quality signal.
Reinvestment: Using money and social equity to build new growth engines as they reach maturity of growth enabling them to reach wider and wider audiences e.g. Film & TV allowing them to extend their growth trajectory.
Vertical integration: Stand-up comedians are building their own production & distribution companies to cut out the middlemen and own the relationship with their audience.
Quick update since I last wrote this:
This article was published in April 2023, comedy has gone from strength to strength.
Some highlights include:
Netflix hosted one of the first live comedy events on the platform where some of the world's best comedians spent 3 hours roasting the GOAT Tom Brady.
Andrew Schulz up and coming comedian went on a worldwide stadium tour, selling out Madison Square Garden’s two nights in a row:
Netflix doubling down on Comedy by showcasing Kevin Hart’s Mark Twain award show.
Stand-up comedians getting their “Hollywood” moment:
Stand-up Andrew Santino starring in the recent comedy movie Ricky Staniky with John Cena and Zac Efron.
Stand up Andrew Schulz starring in Snoop Dogg’s new film “Underdoggs”😀
Right let’s get into it:
This is the all-round product growth model by Reforge, keep this in mind throughout the article to evaluate the similarities between how stand-up comedians operate and how growth marketers operate.
I’m going to break it down into:
Content marketing
Distribution
A/B testing
Research & development
Partnerships & collaborations
Funding via gated content
Scaling strategy
Diversification
Incubation
Reforge frameworks used:
All round product growth model
Growth loops
Race car framework
I’ve been fascinated by the world of stand-up comedy for as long as I can remember.
The ability for one person to capture the attention of a room in the palm of their hands, causing them to have a violent involuntary physical reaction (laughter) due to their performance is utterly fascinating.
Comedians have the power to verbalise the unspoken truths of society.
For those of you that don’t know just how successful some stand-up comedians are let me give you some stats that will shed some light.
(Net Worth)
Jerry Seinfeld $1+ Billion
Kevin Hart - $500+ million
Chris Rock - $200+ million
Joe Rogan - $250+ million
Ricky Gervais $140+ million
Dave Chappelle - $100+ million
Amy Schumer - $45+ million
Louis CK - $40+ million
Whitney Cummings $35+ million
Jimmy Carr $35+ million
In this article, i’m going to tell you how the comedians coming up the ranks at the moment will fly into this list faster than ever before.
I’m going to predict these stand-up comedians (elite growth marketers) will be right up the top earners list in the coming years:
In the professional form we know today, stand up comedy is a fairly modern profession.
Many say that the stand up comedy we know today began with American standup Lenny Bruce in the 1950s, he was the one that stepped out onto the stage with an act that started to look at society, culture, sex, racism and drugs.
Lenny Bruce walked so comedians like Don Rickles, Joan Rivers and Alan King could run.
Here is a true masterclass in charisma & comedy by Don Rickles at an awards dinner where he gives a short speech.
Link to the speech here
In the decades following some of the hall of fame stand up comedians would create history.
Richard Pryor & George Calin are two names that comedians often refer to as the GOATs of comedy and people who inspired them and created the space and audience for the art form to prosper.
George Calin: ”Regarded as one of the most important and influential stand-up comedians of all time, he was dubbed "the dean of counterculture comedians". He was known for his black comedy and reflections on politics, the English language, psychology, religion, and taboo subjects.”In 2004, he placed second on Comedy Central's list of top 10 American comedians. In 2017, Rolling Stone magazine ranked him second (behind Richard Pryor) on its list of the 50 best stand-up comedians of all time
Here are some clips of George Calin in action (link)
Richard Pryor:
“He reached a broad audience with his trenchant observations and storytelling style, and is widely regarded as one of the greatest and most influential stand-up comedians of all time. He was listed at number one on Comedy Central's list of all-time greatest stand-up comedians. In 2017, Rolling Stone ranked him first on its list of the 50 best stand-up comics of all time.”
Here are some clips of Richard Pryor in action (link)
Ok Nick, please tell me how this relates to growth marketing.
ok ok
First let me set the scene.
For those who don’t know what the traditional comedy career route looked like:
Find a club that will let you do a 5/10/15 minute slot
Start trying to get as many slots as possible to get time in front of a crowd and get seen by local agents or recognised by club owners as being an up-and-coming act
Visit comedy festivals like Edinburgh or Montreal in the hope of getting picked up by a taste master
Get a spot on a TV show, panel show or even a scene in a movie
Work your way up to getting a comedy special on a major network e.g. HBO or Comedy Central
Use that leverage to go on the road and sell tickets
Promote your comedy on traditional TV or Radio
Now let’s get into it.
Content marketing.
Growth Loops.
Experimentation;
Before social media, you’d only find out about a good stand-up comedian through a few avenues.
Your friend telling you about them
Seeing them on TV either performing or promoting an upcoming tour
On the radio
In the days of social media, the stand-ups that are rising to the top have mastered the art of content marketing & distribution.
Social media & digital distribution have created the ultimate growth loop as highlighted in this model below:
What is a growth loop? - Link to Reforge article here
“Loops are closed systems where the inputs through some process generate more of an output that can be reinvested in the input.”
Loops force you to answer the question:
“How does one cohort of users lead to another cohort of users?”
"Compound interest is man's greatest invention." – Einstein
Comedians film a fun interaction, post on social media across various channels
Users on social media consume the clips and share it with their friends growing the comedian’s following and raising their quality signal
The comedian posts another funny interaction
New followers enjoy clips and they share it with their friends growing the comedian’s following and raising their quality signal
Rinse & repeat.
Before comedians had to wait months and months before they’d get in front of their target audience again to deliver more value to them in the form of entertainment.
This meant the growth model was very linear.
Where as in the age of social media they can build a compound growth loop with the ability to access millions of potential users in a moments notice.
What stand up comedian is the best example of using this growth loop?
Andrew Schulz is a New York comic who has worked his way through the ranks over the last couple of decades to become one of the most prolific talents in the comedy world.
His meteoric rise to fame is anything but an accident.
Andrew Schulz saw the tectonic plates of the industry start to move...
Schulz started posting comedy clips to Instagram and YouTube.
One clip managed to reach virality on Super Bowl Sunday.
This is without doubt one of the hardest times to break through the noise of social media you can have
What did Schulz do next?
Schulz posted a comedy clip every week from there on out.
“Between 2018/19 Schulz uploaded 125 bits of live comedy.
Contrast this with the comic that puts out one special a year.
100 clips is 100 ways of discovering me. An hour on Netflix is one.
And who wants to listen to a stranger for an hour?
But you'll listen to a 2-minute clip if a friend sent it to you.
In two years his channel grew from 140k to 840k.”
What’s the secret to being able to create so many clips?
Crowd work!
He couldn’t give away the jokes he was carefully crafting on the road but by documenting each show he was able to capture moments other comedians weren’t.
For those that haven’t been to a comedy show, crowd work is….
“Talking to one or more audience members and making jokes out of the conversation”
Andrew Schulz is so good at crowd work he’s even released his own comedy special wholly made up of his best crowd work moments.
Link here
I’m not exaggerating when I say this special is better than the majority of comedians’ greatest work (In my opinion) and it’s completely off the cuff.
Andrew Schulz describes why a clip is so powerful for getting people to show up to a live comedy show:
“People only know you from what you give them.
A lot of people didn’t know I did stand up at a high level until I showed them.
(Andrew then gets into the mind of a potential ticket buyer)
”Why would I put on clothes, get a babysitter etc… if I wasn’t 100% sure he is going to be funny and dedicate my night to you”
But if I show you that I'm funny via a clip, then that is way less of a risk.
Meaning you can show your friends and not be that dickhead who dragged them to an unfunny comedy show.”
This is in essence what traditional marketers would call “social proof”.
What is even more interesting was that due to the size of the social media platforms Schulz could now access infinitely different niche audiences.
By complete accident.
Schulz had jokes that went viral amongst:
The Sikh community
The Romanian community
The Latino community
The Jewish community
And the list goes on and on.
Schulz realised he had gone from being limited to the audience of one network, to the entire world.
How do comedians keep coming up with new funny material?
Do you think Kevin Hart simply writes a new hour of comedy and rocks up to the biggest stage at Madison Square Garden and performs it for the first time live in front of this crowd?
They are the ultimate A/B testers.
Every year or every other year big stand up comedians release another hour of comedy often labelled as “specials”.
To the average consumer they probably think someone like Kevin Hart that it just comes easy to them.
They simply write a few jokes, book a tour and make millions. Easy right?
But on the Joe Rogan experience (biggest podcast in the world) Kevin Hart describes how he comes up with new material and prepares his tour.
As you are reading this next section, think about how you approach the process of finding ads that work and scale them.
Step 1:
Go to random and small comedy clubs unannounced on new material night where the audience knows the comedians are still trying to figure out their material
He then travels around the country testing out jokes, changing the hook, punchline and structure of the jokes until it ammagulmates into a foundation of a good routine.
Sound familiar?
This is the exact process good growth marketers go through when trying to find new winning ads.
Consumer research
Interacting & interviewing your customers
Creative testing
Changing the hook, concept, creative and audience
At the end of this process you have tried and tested ads that you can start to scale.
Step 2:
He takes the foundation of his new routine on a comedy club run for across a couple of months.
Booking in 7/8 shows a weekend to see how the foundation of his comedy does under the pressure of scale.
Growth marketing relation:
The ads are now in the scaling campaign, can they maintain their metrics as the budget, audience and competition increases.
Step 3:
Small theatres. At this point he wants to test if he can consistently get the laughs and the punchlines are landing time after time after time.
Step 4:
Arena: If the laughter feels good here, then it’s time for the world tour, Netflix special.
But if the laughter doesn’t feel good, if the punchlines don’t hit the same at that scale then he takes it back to small theatres and tries again and again until it’s a watertight special which he knows he can take on the road.
How many articles have you read about ads struggling to scale and how to scale from 50k a day to 300k a day in spend.
This is the exact process stand up comedians go through in order to A/B test, experiment and craft the hour long comedy special that will scale and last the test of time as they do a comedy tour around the world.
Research & development
Definition:
“Work directed towards the innovation, introduction, and improvement of products and processes.”
How & why do modern comedians have a research and development process?
The first part we covered in the previous section which is through rapid experimentation in comedy clubs.
The next iteration on this is through podcasting and analytics.
Podcasting.
In its most simple form podcasting is digital content that can be accessed & distributed online.
Invented in 2004. Adam Curry and Dave Winer are credited with the invention of podcasting. (source)
Comedians started realising that not only is podcasting a great way to find new audiences via a new distribution channel but it was the perfect way to hone their craft, try new jokes and bring on funny and interesting guests to learn about what’s going in culture and society.
Some of the most popular ones at the moment include:
Link here
Link here
Link here
Link here
Let’s take another look at the growth loop again:
How does podcasting drive the growth for comedians?
Distribution
Not everyone consumes on one channel, some people want to listen, and some people watch. Some people don’t mind watching something but a lot of people like passive consumption of content as they go about their day. Podcasting allows you to access users where they are on their terms.
Podcasts can be distributed across all major channels such as YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon podcasts and countless more
Virality
If users love their content they will engage with it, and share it and the algorithms will respond by pushing it far and wide across their platforms in terms of visibiltiy whether that be through the Discover page or rising through the chart ranks
Each podcast is then cut into bitesize chunks which are shared across social media (as discussed earlier) and each individual clip has the ability to go viral in itself increasing followers, shares and quality signals further fuelling the growth loop
Andrew Schulz made an interesting comment about going viral online and the algorithm showing him to a new audience which I noted earlier but i’m going to mention again.
“All these people existed on the internet that liked my stuff but didn’t know I existed”
Selling tickets
The major money from comedy comes from doing large live tours in big venues. Who do you think is going to sell more tickets?
A) The comedian who tours once a year and in between shows makes infrequent appearances on traditional TV, radio and different comedy club appearances
B) The comedian who tours once a year but has a podcast that gets hundreds of thousdands of downloads a week, viral clips across social media and has big name guests on the show.
I think it’s an easy answer.
(There will always be outliers but looking at the rule not the exception)
Search Engine Optimisation
You Tube & Google are the two biggest search engines in the world. When anyone wants to find out anything they simply open up a browser and search for what they want.
Example 1) Clip goes viral on Tik Tok, user wants to find out who this person is and watch some more clips. Opens up Google, searches “Andrew Schulz” they are then presented with his Instagram, Twitter, You Tube, Spotify etc… What are all these channels filled with? You guessed it. Podcast clips.
Example 2) User watches funny clip about x trending topic, You Tube then recommends them other popular content that’s similar to what people are interested in. You Tube then recommends them the most recent podcast episode by Y comedian who is commenting on popular culture as it happens further fuelling follower growth, quality signal and the growth loop
Constant feedback via digital comments & reading analytics
Every piece of content a comedian puts out now can get instantaneous & constant feedback from their audience in the form of comments, likes and shares.
This allows them to understand exactly what their target audience enjoys, and what they don’t like and shortens the feedback loop.
Not only does engagement act as social proof and a strong quality signal it allows them to get ahead of trends and improve their skills on the fly giving them a competitive advantage over other stand-up comedians who don’t have a podcast.
Ok Nick, but how are these comedians funding their R&D?
Before I dive into this let’s go back to the beginning where I showed you the product growth model by reforge.
As you can see monetisation is a crucial element. Without a way of making money inbetween shows most comics can’t reinvest into their growth models meaning they can’t distribute their product (comedy) to the same level as other comics.
These podcast studios aren’t cheap. You are paying for:
Camera, lighting and set equipment
Editor
Producer
Merchandise
Studio time or build
Digital manager e.g. website, ads, merch
Four main methods of monetising the podcast & their digital distribution:
Sponsorship (platform ads or sponsored product reads)
Gated content e.g. Patreon
Merchandise e.g. t-shirts
Live ticket shows
Sponsorship:
Sponsored product reads:
Companies will pay xx thousands of pounds to the creator to have them read a 30-180+ second ad during their podcast.
Unlike normal ad reads which are often boring and really ruin the listening experience. Many comedians take total creative license and produce adverts that are entertaining, outrageous and actually worth listening to.
Here is a hilarious clip of some of the most outrageous ad reads by Andrew Schulz → Link here
Gated content
Many of the comedians mentioned during this article have gated content that sits behind a paywall.
Most of them use the platform known as Patreon.com
“Patreon is a membership platform that provides business tools for content creators to run a subscription service. It helps creators and artists earn a monthly income by providing rewards and perks to their subscribers.”
They have different tiered membership levels which include perks such as:
Suggesting new topics to discuss on the podcast
Exclusive episodes
Access to their upcoming comedy special on early release
This really drives a deep connection between the comedians and their audience.
Want to see how much these people are making?
Tim Dillion's monthly earnings:
Andrew Schulz’s Flagrant monthly earnings:
Merchandise:
This is an obvious one and one that’s been running in many industries for a long long time but there was a great story about how stand up comic Bert Kreischer went on the Joe Rogan experience and told his story about getting involved with the Russian mafia whilst on a school trip.
The podcast exploded and they launched a shirt with “The Machine” across the front and sold $100,000 worth of merch in a few months.
$100,000 isn’t an amount to be taken lightly.
Live show ticket sales:
This one is self-explanatory:
The podcast is good
People like & share it
Comedian announces show
Growth of followers & engagement = more ticket sales
.
The Reforge Race car Framework:
A really succinct way to summarise the previous points would be to use the Reforge Racecar Framework detailed below.
“Dan Hockenmaier (Basis One, Reforge Partner, ex Thumbtack) and Lenny Rachitsky (Ex Airbnb) brought these concepts together in a super elegant way called The Racecar Growth Framework. The four pieces of the framework are:”
Link to reforge article here
⚙️ The (Growth) Engine
Self-sustaining growth loops that drive most of your growth (e.g. virality, performance marketing, content, and sales).
For stand up comedians this is their comedy act, social media & podcast
💥Turbo boosts
One-off events that accelerate growth temporarily but don’t last (e.g. PR, events, Super Bowl ads).
For stand up comedians this would be TV appearances like Graham Norton, Jimmy Kimmel, This Morning etc…
💧Lubricants
Optimizations that make the growth engine run more efficiently (e.g. improved customer conversion, a stronger brand, and higher customer retention).
For stand up comedians this is improving their act through trying new matieral out, improving their social media through optimisations e.g. better thumbnails and building a memorable and recognisable studio to do the podcast in with distinct branding.
⛽️ Fuel
The input that your engine requires to run (e.g. capital, content, users).”
For stand up comedians this would be the paid/gated content, revenue from touring they can reinvest and merchandise sales
What have stand-up comedians done to build new growth engines once they’ve reached maturity?
At this point we’re talking about stand up comics who have hit it big time, they are selling out theatre after theatre killing it.
They’ve got aspirations for arenas but know that in order to sell ten’s of thousands of tickets across the country they need to think bigger.
This will require them to build a whole new growth engine, these can come in many forms but here are the main four that i’ve identified.
TV & Film:
This is a move that only a select few stand up comedians ever manage to do successfully as it’s a completely new skillset and industry to learn and break into.
The obvious choice is A list star Kevin Hart who has become one of the biggest stars in Hollywood following his meteoric stand up success.
Most fondly known for his appearances alongside co star Dwayne Johnson.
One of my favourite clips on the internet is from a media roadshow they did where in an interview they started to impersonate each other.
Comedy cold here
Some other recent examples are stand up comics Andrew Schulz and Andrew Santino featuring in some of the latest Netflix releases and Bert Kreischer starring as himself in his new movie The Machine.
Prediction:
In the coming years we will see a massive surge in stand up comics creating and starring in the biggest releases of the year.
Vertical Integration & Incubation:
Owning the studio:
What’s better than appearing on the biggest Films, TV shows & Podcasts in existence?
Owning the studio that creates them I guess?
Now we’re entering into the elite of the elite.
I’m sure by now you’ll guess who i’m about to mention.
Aiming to the second-ever stand-up comic ever to reach billionaire status.
The one and only Kevin Hart.
Kevin Hart set up “Hartbeat Studios”
“Hartbeat is a creative, multiplatform enterprise at the powerful intersection of comedy and culture. And with a massive distribution network, Heartbeat media connects our studios and branded content with audiences around the world through Laugh Out Loud Fast Channel, Live and Interactive Experiences, Radio & Records, Wherever and Whenever our audience wants to laugh.”
Building a comedy club:
Joe Rogan is a UFC commentator, owner and host of the biggest podcast in the world “The Joe Rogan Experience” and one of the big standup comics in the world.
He signed an exclusive deal with Spotify for a reported $300 million across 3/4 years.
Joe Rogan is the head of one of the most powerful media shows in the world and wants to see up and coming comics shine.
He is known for bringing up and coming comics on his podcast showing the world how funny these people are at times where they were unknown to many listening to the podcast.
Due to the size of his show he is credited with kickstarting or boosting the careers of now super successful stand up comics such as:
Andrew Schulz
Bert Kreischer
Shane Gillis
Tim Dillion
Andrew Santino
Tom Segura
Joe Rogan has gone on to build his own comedy club called “The Comedy Mothership” in Austin Texas.
The aim is to cultivate the best talent in the comedy world, pay them great wages and build the foundation for Austin being the worlds hub for stand up comedy.
Not only will this attract huge audiences across the world, it will grow Joe’s social media following, podcast listeners, his tour sales and provide heaps of karma when the new up and coming talent pay it forward as they climb the ladder.
Becoming the podcast producer.
The husband and wife duo took the podcast game to a whole new level for stand up comedians.
After they started the hit podcast “Your Mums House”
…they realised they had an unfair advantage.
They are both world class stand up comics
They have the capital to expand and reinvest
They have both deeply connected throughout the comedy world
They know how to run, operate and scale a successful podcast
This unique combination led down the route of setting up “Your Mum’s House Studios”
They now produce and operate 7 popular shows all under their brand.
Link here
TL;DR:
Circular growth loops: Building closed systems that allow the inputs to generate outputs that can be reinvested in the input e.g. Social media
Channel diversification: Launching new channels e.g. podcasts that allow them to shorten the feedback loop between the end consumer and themselves.
Content marketing: Stand up comics are building their own content and podcast studios so they can scale production faster than their peers.
Monetisation: Through gated content they can monetise their community e.g. Patreon allowing for reinvestment into their growth engine.
Experimentation: Comedians leverage their live comedy appearances to engage in crowd work and perform new material enabling them to experiment and iterate at speed to constantly improve their material and find new angles/concepts to fuel their growth.
Partnerships: They engage in collaborations and partnerships with other entertainers around the world enabling them to audience share and find new consumers and increase their quality signal.
Reinvestment: Using money and social equity to build new growth engines as they reach maturity of growth enabling them to reach wider and wider audiences e.g. Film & TV allowing them to extend their growth trajectory.
Vertical integration: Stand up comedians are building their own production & distribution companies to cut out the middle men and own the relationship with their audience.